Over on Stephen’s blog, after two days, we finally have people weighing in, turning someone’s personal tragedy into something bigger. Of the two videos he posted, the first one about a 15 year old gay boy being killed for giving a guy a Valentine has stirred the most response. It’s sad, but sorry…I can’t generate any “extra” emotion over it. I don’t see it as any sadder than some kid being shot for wearing the wrong color baseball cap in the wrong neighborhood. I don’t see it as any sadder than some black kid being beaten and dragged behind a truck with a chain around his neck for whistling at a white girl “in the wrong town”. I don’t see it as any sadder than any number of bad things that happen to good people anywhere in the world on any given day. It was a vicious murder and that’s all it was…as if that isn’t enough?
The first few comments to the post are what one would expect. After all, there is no justification for murder – murder being, by definition, the willful taking of an innocent life. But then, we turn the tragedy to political statement and it all starts with a twisting of my words from a discussion of gay rights in an earlier discussion on Stephen’s blog.
SmartLikeStreetcar says: “A few people on here have argued that since the majority doesn't support gay marriage, and since the majority doesn't want gay bashing to be labeled a hate crime, then the US shouldn't enact such policies.”
Could someone explain to me how, in a democracy (where presumably majority rules), one enacts legislation without the majority voting for it? We are not talking about a topic where the polity is evenly divided, or ambiguously close. We are probably talking a polity that is, at best, split 80/20. And somehow, we think the twenty percent should ram their morals down the throats of the other eighty percent? It does not matter that the twenty percent might be right. It ain’t happenin’ folks! It will not happen until you convince more of the majority of the rightness of your position and bring them over to your side. That’s how democracy works, but apparently Stephen and some of his friends missed that part of Civics 101.
Streetcar goes on to say: “But to be a leader means that you have to lead, that you can move the country in a direction of tolerance and understanding, and if your words are passionate and heartfelt, you can change minds. You can do what is right. Just as Abraham Lincoln did 150 years ago.”
Except that Abraham Lincoln himself said that he’d be willing to keep slavery, if the Union could be held together. So much for passionate heartfelt mind changing. We also seem to forget that over half a million people died to bring about that particular change (some revisionist historians put the number closer to a million). If you can’t get elected to the leadership position, then the road you travel is longer, more difficult, and you are doing so without the power of the political office to affect meaningful change. If the mood of the polity is against your position and you are not smart enough to figure that out, then you don’t get elected. That’s how it works. Civics 101 again.
Where we have agreement is in the insane comments by people like Falwell, Robertson and Franklin Graham – comments stating that all our problems are some curse from God. Hooey! I don’t believe that either and I also despise that fact that these individuals wrap themselves in the mantel of Jesus and twist his message into their message of hate.
Writerkat then asks Streetcar: “How do people get away with that??”
Demographics. The people who harbor such feelings or who are sympathetic to such feelings are in the vast majority. That does not make them right, but that is the mountain you are attempting to move.
Then Stephen chimes in agreeing with Streetcar on the gay rights litmus test: “Equal rights is a different matter. If you think some people should have more rights than others, something's wrong with you.”
And what power grants “rights?” Only the power that one has to take and hold those “rights.” You can sit and pontificate about ideals and what should be, but if you don’t change hearts and minds, it’s all theory. That is the reality you are facing. With all the other issues on the table, it is insane to expect a politician to fall on his or her sword in the name of gay rights at this time.
Spare me your hypocrisy and prattle about equal rights! You seem to have no problem condemning tens of thousands of innocent lives to death in your support for “abortion rights!” Your stance on the two topics is not logically consistent.
Stephen concludes with: “Equal rights don't spring from a spreadsheet; they're an a priori premise of modern society, one that has, incidentally, enormous survival benefit.”
No, equal rights are an invention of Western society. How is this enormous survival benefit accrued? Less than 1/5 of the world’s population live within political systems that even espouse the concept of rights as defined by Western culture. So how is it a priori? It seems to me that the other four fifths of humanity are surviving quite well without necessarily sharing the Western view on rights. There seems to be a contradiction, therefore, check your premise.
Erica added: “People on this blog call for "patience," and they are entitled to that opinion, but then again . . . when it is your rights, as a "Lesser Than" or "Other" it is different. It is easy for the majority to be both SILENT and for them to urge patience.”
The majority are hardly silent on the issue of “gay rights”. In fact, they are shouting you down. Those on your side who urge patience are urging patience in the tactical sense, not “turn the other cheek” sense. You should know me well enough by now to know that I’m not a “turn the other cheek” type. Such person like me, being a soldier, looks at “battles” figurative or literal in such terms. Tactical patience allows you to shape the battlefield to your advantage so that when you attack, you are successful. A frontal assault at 1 to 4 odds is not wise. Timing is everything, therefore patience is a requirement for success.
Speak out that something like killing someone for being gay is wrong…absolutely! No justification in the world will suffice for murder…any murder. If you think you are going to change the visceral reaction of the majority about gay rights with “in-your-face” militant advocacy, think again.
Finally, it is not just the Falwell’s, the Hitler’s, the Robertson’s and others of that twisted ilk who are to blame for crimes like the murder of Larry. It also falls on those who fail to warn such children that there are evil people out there who will harm you for being what you are. You can do such a good job teaching your kid that it is “ok to be gay” that you send them unarmed and unprepared into a lion’s den. It should not be so, but it is.
Thursday, March 6, 2008
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4 comments:
Spare me your hypocrisy and prattle about equal rights! You seem to have no problem condemning tens of thousands of innocent lives to death in your support for “abortion rights!” Your stance on the two topics is not logically consistent.
I don't prattle.
Roe v. Wade is the law. I accept it. The Matthew Shepard Act will eventually become law. I will accept it too. It's not hypocrisy, it's Civics 101.
It seems to me that the other four fifths of humanity are surviving quite well without necessarily sharing the Western view on rights.
Depends on what you mean by "quite well." You visited East Germany before the wall came down, didn't you? Hungary? I don't know what you saw, but I can't begin to do justice in these comments to the filth and squalor I saw.
There seems to be a contradiction, therefore, check your premise.
My premise is everyone should have equal rights under the law.
Roe v. Wade is the law. I accept it. The Matthew Shepard Act will eventually become law. I will accept it too. It's not hypocrisy, it's Civics 101.
Gee, but you argued in an earlier discussion that just because something is a law, doesn’t mean it is right and that we should accept it. Again, you are contradictory. Or is it that as long as you agree with a law, you accept it?
So, if the Supreme Court decided by a narrow majority, as they did in Roe v. Wade, that gays should not be married, you’d shut up and accept it? Most analysts think the current court is split something like 6-3, so you’d better hope the issue doesn’t get to the Supreme Court in the next year or two.
As the Matthew Shepard Act is supported by a strong majority, it simply proves my point about needing numbers.
Depends on what you mean by "quite well." You visited East Germany before the wall came down, didn't you? Hungary? I don't know what you saw, but I can't begin to do justice in these comments to the filth and squalor I saw.
You argued survival, not cleanliness and DVD players in every living room. Two fifths of the world’s population lives in China and the Indian sub-continent. Based on their population expansion and birth rates, they are surviving quite well. The concept of rights is still a Western intellectual construct.
My premise is everyone should have equal rights under the law.
Your stand on abortion renders this statement false.
Gee, but you argued in an earlier discussion that just because something is a law, doesn’t mean it is right and that we should accept it.
I don't advocate disobeying the law. I advocate trying to change the law if you disagree with it.
So, if the Supreme Court decided by a narrow majority, as they did in Roe v. Wade, that gays should not be married, you’d shut up and accept it?
It's already against the law in most states, and I accept it. But why should I shut up?
Based on their population expansion and birth rates, they are surviving quite well.
Based on infant mortality rates and longevity, they're not. I'm not going to bother compiling statistics, but I'm sure there's a correlation between relative freedom and survival (AND quality of life). People in western society who have the most freedom live the longest, healthiest, happiest lives. The Jews in Germany during WWII had no freedoms at all and went to the gas chambers. I have no idea why we're arguing this point.
Your stand on abortion renders this statement false.
I am not going to argue the abortion issue in the comments section of a blog. Suffice it to say I don't think a fertilized egg is a citizen under the law. The Catholic Church thinks masturbation is a sin because each sperm cell is a potential human being. You can take this to any extreme you want. At the same time, I don't believe abortion is necessary, given all the couples standing in line to adopt.
I don't want to "win" any debates between us. I'd rather have constructive conversation than competition. My purpose in discussing politics and religion on my blog is to sway (maybe a tiny little bit) the people who disagree with me. If someone sees the Ellen Degeneres tape on my blog, someone who wouldn't otherwise have seen it at all, and if the tape sensitizes them a little, I've accomplished something.
I don't advocate disobeying the law. I advocate trying to change the law if you disagree with it.
Good. The next step is recognizing when your tactics are counter-productive.
I'm not going to bother compiling statistics, but I'm sure there's a correlation between relative freedom and survival (AND quality of life)…I have no idea why we're arguing this point.
Well that’s the point. You drew a correlation where one does not exist. Second, the entire concept of “rights” is a Western intellectual construct, specifically Judeo-Christian construct involving a God who bestows such rights. Otherwise, rights are merely the product of having the power to invent them and hold them.
…I don't think a fertilized egg is a citizen under the law.
Who’s talking extremes now? It is only a fertilized “egg” for a matter hours. The abortion issue per se is not what I’m pointing out either and the details are another complex discussion alone. The issue is your logical inconsistency. In most states if someone kills a pregnant woman and the unborn child dies too, the killer is charged with two murders, not one. To charge the killer with the second murder implies “personhood” and thus implies that that person should also receive equal protection under the law.
I don't want to "win" any debates between us. I'd rather have constructive conversation than competition. My purpose in discussing politics and religion on my blog is to sway (maybe a tiny little bit) the people who disagree with me.
I didn’t put any part of this post on your blog. Nor do I recall disagreeing with your post at all. I took issue, in my post on my blog with your position (insert any like-minded name) that gay rights should be a litmus test for candidates when, at this point in time, it is political suicide. In which case, you have no one to vote for this time around.
At any rate I kept it off your blog because I felt the nature of the Degeneres video made any counter-discussion there inappropriate.
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